Evolution- a theory in crisis.

[Reflectionist]

	Quote:	Nerd42
	Seriuosly though, there's no way you can read "The Abolition of Man" and claim the author "knows nothing of logic." You could say he was insane / totally off his rocker, but he did at least express his thoughts in a logical order. I would also like to say - C. S. Lewis isn't the point here! Nobody has time to read every book or study every subject. It's just your reaction to my bringing up some books I'd read that I think are good seemed kind of extreme and it sounded like you were giving me the old "Christians are stupid" line that I'm getting really fed up with hearing from people.

Meh, Lewis is kind of logical, but his arguments are predicated on baseless assumptions. He commits the logical fallacy of false dichotomies entirely way too much. He takes it for granted that the reader already agrees with him partially. He takes it for granted that the reader already believes in God. He takes it for granted that the reader already thinks Jesus was a great, original moral teacher (Not true. Jesus' philosophy predates him by about 500 years). This is why I don't consider him to be logical in the way that you do (which makes sense, you believe in God, I do not. Therefore, you find the Christian C.S. Lewis to be logical. I do not, but for other reasons). His logic isn't objective; it is subjective.

There can be no logic when it's all about assuming the opinion of other people.

At any rate, let's get this discussion back on topic.

[Nerd42]

	Quote:	Reflectionist
	Meh, Lewis is kind of logical, but his arguments are predicated on baseless assumptions. He commits the logical fallacy of false dichotomies entirely way too much. He takes it for granted that the reader already agrees with him partially. He takes it for granted that the reader already believes in God. He takes it for granted that the reader already thinks Jesus was a great, original moral teacher (Not true. Jesus' philosophy predates him by about 500 years).

Actually, in the Screwtape Letters (an exercise in reverse psychology intended to encourage and inform people who are already Christians, not to convert people) Lewis's fictional demon Screwtape writes to his nephew, the junior demon Wormwood, about Christ in his 23rd letter:

	Quote:
	We first make Him solely a teacher, and then conceal the very substantial agreement between His teachings and those of all other great moral teachers. For humans must not be allowed to notice that all great moralists are sent by the Enemy

(Here, the demon meant God)

	Quote:
	not to inform men but to remind them, to restate the primeval moral platitudes against our continual concealment of them. We make the Sophists: He raises up a Socrates to answer them.

So, Lewis clearly recognized the fact you just brought up. (Well, Christians believe that Christ's philosophy was from the beginning of time, not a mere five hundred years old, but I digress) This isn't to defend Lewis, it's merely to show that there is no argument about that here.

	Quote:
	This is why I don't consider him to be logical in the way that you do (which makes sense, you believe in God, I do not. Therefore, you find the Christian C.S. Lewis to be logical. I do not, but for other reasons). His logic isn't objective; it is subjective.

Well wait a minute ... I thought you meant logical as in a self-consistent logical chain from the beginning (which admittedly must be accepted on it's own merits or by some other justification outside the argument) to the end. "Wrong" - "Based on incorrect assumptions" - "Lacking common sense" would all be fair accusations but "illogical" wouldn't be.

[Reflectionist]

I replied to this in PM.
Get the discussion back on topic.

[Nerd42]

Good point about staying on topic.

The guy who earlier said we can't define the "Theory of Evolution" per se was right as far as I've ever been able to figure out. But I think I should bow out of talking about evolution because my real problem is with abiogenesis. If I could see abiogenesis as a possibility, I think evolution would be no big deal to accept.